Having some trouble with this phrase...

Latest post Sun, May 21 2017 5:57 by Dale D. 3 replies.
  • Mon, Apr 10 2017 6:46

    • Ryboss47
    • Top 25 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Mon, Feb 1 2016
    • United States
    • Posts 93
    • Points 2,061

    Having some trouble with this phrase...

    Between the translation of the words and the structure of the sentence I'm a little lost.

    "An dtiocfaidh liom uisce a fháil, le do thoil?"  agus "An dtiocfaidh linn an bille a fháil, le do thoil?"

     

    I have the understanding of the entire phrases down, which is what byki has offered me. BYKI's translations are "May I have some water, please?" and "May we have the bill, please?"  That's all fine and dandy.  What I'm lost at is the translation for "tiocfaidh" and "fáil" in the sentences as well as the placement of the noun.

     

    I've been able to break it down a little so you all can see where I'm at...

    An.. Used to form questions.

    tiocfaidh..future analytic of "tar" where "tar" means "to come".

    liom..with me    linn..with us

    uisce...water    an bille...bill

    a fháil...where this is a contraction of "faigh+áil"

    faigh...get/acquire/obtain

    áil...suffix to form verbal nouns

     

    So my questions revolve around the use of tiocfaidh agus fáil.  Is there another definiton for tiocfaidh that I'm missing?  Could this be translated as "bring"?  That's making a little more sense in my head.  As in "[In the future] bring me water, please?" but in this case I don't see where a fháil would come into play or make sense.  This is what I'm currently struggling with.

    I was also thinking how one could replace the first part of the question with a less formal question  "An féidir leat..."

     

    Also byki originally had it spelt as "tiocfadh".  Was that a typo or is that a colloquial way of spelling the same word?

     

     

     

    • Post Points: 37
  • Tue, Apr 25 2017 16:26 In reply to

    • otuathail
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Wed, Dec 17 2014
    • Ireland
    • Posts 149
    • Points 1,431

    Re: Having some trouble with this phrase...

    Hi Ryan,

    The correct spelling is an dtiocfadh (conditional form of tar) instead of an dtiocfaidh (future form of tar). So there's no typo in your source material.

    An dtiocfadh liom uisce a fháil, le do thoil? May I get some water, please? Could I get some water, please? Would I be able to get some water, please?

    An dtiocfadh linn an bille a fháil, le do thoil? May we pay the bill, please? Could we pay the bill, please? Would we be able to pay the bill, please?


    You need to take the verb tar and the preposition le together in these examples... an dtiocfadh liom, an dtiocfadh linn.

    Tar and le are often used together and can have several different meanings. One of those meanings is to be able.

    Have a look at the entry for tar le on teanglann.ie for various ways in which tar and le are used with different meanings.

    http://www.teanglann.ie/en/fgb/tar_le

    Specifically, if you look at meaning number 4 for useage similar to your examples (tagann is the present form of tar)

    4. Tagann letig le, is able

    Thiocfadh liom cuidiú leat, could help you

    Tháinig liom comhairle a chur air, I was able to influence him

    Ní thiocfadh liom a leithéid sin a dhéanamh, I couldnt do the like of that

     thig liom, I cant.

     

    The a fháil part of your examples is a verbal noun and isn't connected with the an dtiocfaidh liom other than to express that you want to get something. 

    It could just a well be an dtiocfadh liom uisce a ól, le do thoil, may I drink some water, please? or an dtiocfadh linn an bille a íoc, le do thoil? may we pay the bill, please?

    uisce a fháil, to get (some) water

    an bille a fháil, to get the bill

    uisce a ól, to drink (some) water

    an bille a íoc, to pay he bill

    Gaeilge a labhairt, to speak Irish

    rud a dhéanamh, to do a thing

    An bhfuil rud ar bith a thiocfadh liom dhéanamh duit? Can I do anything for you? 

    D'oibrigh  chomh dian agus thiocfadh liomI worked as hard as I could (as hard as I was able)

    Plenty more examples of the may I... variety using using an dtiocfadh liom, on teanglann.ie

    http://www.focloir.ie/en/search/ei/adv?q=an+dtiocfadh+liom&inlanguage=ga&searchin=&pos=&subject=&style=

     

    You could also say...

    An féidir liom uisce a fháil, le do thoil?

    An bhféadfainn uisce a fháíl, le do thoil?

    • Post Points: 5
  • Sun, May 21 2017 2:53 In reply to

    • Ryboss47
    • Top 25 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Mon, Feb 1 2016
    • United States
    • Posts 93
    • Points 2,061

    Re: Having some trouble with this phrase...

    Having some trouble with another phrase so I thought I'd put it here.  This one's a simple one but it's the context that's confusing me.

     

    "dul go dtí..."   vs.  "dul go.."

    dul: to go

    go: to

    tí:?

     

    The phrase "dul go.." already means "to go to", why in certain places does one phrase appear and in other contexts the other appears?  Why is "tí" necessary in certain places?  Or is it not necessary, it's just optional?  And if it is just optional, what is the significance of the word in the phrase?

    GRMA,

    -Ryan

    • Post Points: 5
  • Sun, May 21 2017 5:57 In reply to

    • Dale D
    • Top 10 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Fri, Feb 18 2011
    • Woodland, California USA
    • Posts 510
    • Points 7,921

    Re: Having some trouble with this phrase...

    haigh, Ryan.

    "go dtí" means "until" or "as far as" so it adds a directional or movement component.

    Dale D

    • Post Points: 5
Page 1 of 1 (4 items) | RSS
Learn Irish with Talk Irish, 117a Ormeau Road, Belfast, BT7 1SH, N Ireland
© Copyright 2017 TalkIrish.com  -  Privacy Policy  -  About Us  -  Jobs  -  News  -  Links