Grammar Clarification

Latest post Thu, Sep 7 2017 3:35 by Dale D. 8 replies.
  • Tue, Aug 29 2017 20:29

    • Nollaig009
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    Grammar Clarification

    A chairde,

    Tá mé ag leamh Nuacht ar an RTÉ website. An bhfuil sé ceart a scríobh - tá tacaíocht á tabhairt or should it be á thabhairt? 

     

    Go raibh maith agat,

    Nollaig☘️☘️

     

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  • Wed, Aug 30 2017 7:31 In reply to

    • Dale D
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    Re: Grammar Clarification

    The teangleann.ie database says that á lenites or eclipses on the same rules as a, with the apparent difference that á is the object of a verbal noun whereas a is a possessive pronoun.  So if the same rules apply, the absence of lenition would indicate the object is feminine, so in this case it would be "support is given to her"; if it was á thabhairt, the translation would be "support is given to him."  It follows that á dtabhairt would mean "given to them".  At least that's how I am understanding it.  If I am in error (which frequently happens) I welcome correction....

    Dale D

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  • Wed, Aug 30 2017 22:15 In reply to

    • Nollaig009
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    Re: Grammar Clarification

    Go raibh míle maith agat Dale, mó cheis a fhreagairt!

    Slán,

    Nollaig ☘️☘️☘️

     

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  • Thu, Aug 31 2017 21:19 In reply to

    • Dale D
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    Re: Grammar Clarification

    Fáilte romhat, a Nollaig009.

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  • Mon, Sep 4 2017 11:16 In reply to

    • otuathail
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    Re: Grammar Clarification

    Hi Nollaig, Dale,

    Dale, you're on the right track.

    tá tacaíocht á tabhairt, support is being given

    tá tacaíocht á tabhairt dó, support is being given to him

    tá tacaíocht á tabhairt dí, support is being given to her

    There is no lenition on tabhairt because tacaíocht is feminine, i.e. the thing being given is feminine. 

    Similarily...

    tá an fhuinneoig á briseadh, the window is being broken (fuinneoig is feminine, so no lenition on briseadh, the thing being broken is feminine).

    tá an cheist á freagairt, the quesion is being answered (ceist is feminine, so no lenition on freagairt, the thing being answered is feminine))

    tá an doras á dhúnadh, the door is being closed (doras is masculine, so lenition on dhúnadh, the thing being closed is masculine)

     

    There's another similar verbal noun construction that's probably worth mentioning here...

    tá sé do mo bhualadh, he is hitting me (bhualadh is lenited because of the pronoun mo)

    ta sé do do bhualadh, he is hitting you (again bhualadh is lenited because  of the pronoun do)

    tá sé á bhualadh, he is hitting him (think of this as tá sé do a bhualadh, but do a becomes á and bhualadh is lenited because the thing being hit is masculine, him)

    tá sé á bualadh, he is hitting her (similarily, think of this as tá sé do a bualadh and do + a becomes á and bualadh is not lenited because feminine her)

    tá sé dár mbualadh, he is hitting us (think of this as tá sé do ár mbualadh, but do + ár = dár and mbualadh is eclipsed because he's now hitting plurals)

    tá sé do bhur mbualadh, he is hitting you (plural, same principle as above)

    tá sé á mbualadh, he is hitting them (do + a becomes á and mbualadh is eclipsed because plural them)

    The reason for this construction is that you cannot say something like tá sé ag bualadh mé in Irish, you must say tá sé do mo bhualadh.

     

    You might also come across dhá instead of á. It's the same thing. Standard, Munster and Ulster generally use á and in Connacht, it's often dhá)

    tá tacaíocht dhá tabhairt, support is being given

    tá sé dhá bualadh, he is hitting her

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  • Mon, Sep 4 2017 22:21 In reply to

    • Nollaig009
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    Re: Grammar Clarification

    Thank you so much otuathail, your post is very informative and clearly explained. 

    Very much appreciated,

    Nollaig009☘️☘️

     

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  • Wed, Sep 6 2017 16:06 In reply to

    • Dale D
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    Re: Grammar Clarification

    Hi, otuathail.

    Very good explanation, but I do need to point out that in one of your examples you said "lenites" when I believe you meant "eclipses".

     

    tá sé dár mbualadh, he is hitting us (think of this as tá sé do ár mbualadh, but do + ár = dár and mbualadh is lenited because he's now hitting plurals)

     

    You did refer properly to eclipsis in the example you cited next, so I think you just got ahead of yourself....  Anyway, very well explained, and appreciated!

     

    Dale D

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  • Wed, Sep 6 2017 19:51 In reply to

    • otuathail
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    Re: Grammar Clarification

    Hi Dale,

    Well spotted. Copy and paste error. Forgot to edit after copying from previous example. I'll fix that now.

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  • Thu, Sep 7 2017 3:35 In reply to

    • Dale D
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    Re: Grammar Clarification

    I think we've all done that more than once!  Big Smile

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